Our toilet is out of action at the moment, as our septic tank (fosse septique) is blocked. This isn’t the first time, either – it got blocked in the summer and I had to dig halfway to Australia to find the opening so we could have a poke around to see what was happening. It seems that either our tank has been poorly installed or it simply isn’t big enough for a family of four.
So, it appears we have a bit of a problem; and one might assume that I’ll be outside turning the front lawn into a mud bath later on today (the tank is conveniently sited just in front of our B&B!). BUT!.. I would like to take this opportunity to install a compost toilet – we have already used one in the past and know it works, we have installed one in the B&B AND I’ve calculated that a compost loo would save around 30,000 litres of water a year, whilst creating fabulous compost for our future coppice and woodland. It seems the perfect solution to me, easy to make and easy to run…
The only problem is Ian. Ian likes a normal loo – compost toilets are all very well occasionally but he just can’t quite bring himself to have one permanently installed in his home (and there’s no space to have both, allowing people to chose)! To me it seems obvious to put one in, but I have mentioned it in the past and always get an unfavourable response!
So, where do you come in? Please leave a comment and tell us what you think -
- Compost loo or ‘normal’ toilet ?
- Bountiful compost or 30,000 litres of drinking water flushed down the toilet every year (apparently flushing the loo accounts for around 40% of domestic water consumption)?
Stonehead said
Hmm, difficult choice. Could I forgo the pleasure of putting the full length of my arm down a blocked pipe to clear a blockage caused by a silly female visitor ignoring the advice to “not put sanitary items” down the loo?
Could I forgo the pleasure of rodding the inspection vent until a shower of shite erupts into the sky and leaves me looking like a papier mache man?
Could I forgo the pleasure of opening up the septic tank and assisting the tank man to shovel lovely curds of shite out until we can get to the liquids?
Or should I just rip the bathroom apart and put in a compost loo, probably made out of salvage and scrap? Sounds easy, except that I have a 10-year list of jobs waiting to be done already.
Where’s the drain rods?
debra said
Compost Loo please! I would have loved one of these, but when we were renovating this house we didn’t even know they were available in France, and at that time our French wasn’t good enought to enquire about it. Would like one the next time we renovate though.
Scarlet said
Debra,
Anything is ‘available’ if you make it yourself, as I will be doing!
debra said
I am impressed! I would not know how to make something like that myself. I look forward to reading about it all. Well done you.
StewartP said
Good Lord! A normal loo of course.
The thought of having to take out the stuff in midwinter is apalling. It’s bad enough having to chop wood and feed various animals. If on top of that I have to clear up my own mess . . .
Get the fosse sorted. A well installed fosse will go for years before it needs attention. Ours has been happily functioning for 4 years and we haven’t peeked at at it. When it snows the terrace is all covered in white, except over the fosse where bactarial action keeps it warm as toast.
On the plus side, we don’t do B&B or Gites so we are spared people who think that the word “disposable” on nappies means they can go down a toilet!
Scarlet said
Stewart, you big girl! Emptying the bucket once a week will take me about ten minutes. As I already have to empty the compost bucket, take out the recycling, take out the laundry, take the scraps to the chickens, take the ashes from the fire, this will make absolutely no difference at all!
Saying a well installed fosse will run for years is like saying a well installed nuclear power station will run for years… Yes, it will, but what is the eventual environmental impact?
LittleFfarm Dairy said
Compost loo, definitely.
We’re having one installed in our Dairy Complex – saves on the cost/effort of having to install a septic tank; & is so much better for the environment. And as the building we’re erecting is made entirely of wood from sustainable sources (minus the roof) we’re trying to do as much as we can to minimise our environmental impact. Further, because (as it’s wood) the building weighs less we need less supporting concrete; & are putting the goats on a self-draining, natural floor – so technically even they have their own ‘compost loo’!
I suppose my one concern is that goats love wood so I worry that it’ll turn out a bit like a gingerbread house & get eaten within a year!
But I certainly wouldn’t turn my nose up at a compost loo….!
redforkhippie said
Compost. And for the simplest kind (which can be done on a non-permanent basis to give your sidekick time to get comfortable with the idea), I highly, highly recommend you procure yourself a copy of The Humanure Handbook, which tells how to make a simple sawdust toilet.
You can buy big, fancy composting toilets that break everything down right in your house and turn out a little drawer full of finished compost now and then, but they cost crazy money and require power to run. The sawdust variety is simply an indoor receptacle that is emptied into an outdoor bin or pile periodically.
Done correctly, it can be maintained in the time it takes to clean a standard toilet, and there’s never a risk of it backing up or causing a problem. We had one in our old basement as a backup for … well … backups. It worked fine, and we found it actually did a better job of controlling smells than the regular kind — perhaps because we used highly aromatic cedar shavings as our carbon-based cover material. I’d put one in our current house if not for the fact that we’d have to do a bit of remodeling to take out the existing toilet, seal off the pipes, and build a nice cabinet to house the compost receptacle so as to avoid horrifying visitors who are loathe to think about taking care of business in a bucket. (Hide the bucket in a fancy cabinet, and suddenly you have an expensive-looking novelty.)
Scarlet said
If anyone’s interested in the book mentioned by Redforkhippy, you’ll find a review of it on the site: http://www.smellysmallholding.com/book.html
It is a fantastic book, my copy hasn’t been off my bedside table for 3 years!
You can see photos of me making the compost loo for our B&B at http://www.smellysmallholding.com/articles/compost.html
Thanks for all your comments, keep ‘em coming!
redforkhippie said
OMG … I didn’t think anybody else had read that book! That’s great!
StewartP said
gah! I’m surrounded by hippies!
Environmental impact? You’re going to take the evacuations of your bowels, with its occasional contents of famous french “gastro” and whatever other bacterial lovelies it contains and bury it in your garden and ultimately scatter it over your veggie patch. That’s a pretty hard environmental impact right there.
When a fosse gets pumped out by the tanker I’m sure they don’t then drive down the road and empty it in the nearest field.
Most rural french properties will need a fosse even if you don’t connect a toilet to it because you can’t just send your dish water/washing machine water etc into the nearest drain. That grey water still should be treated through a fosse and a bac a sable. By seperating your poo from that equation you are only making extra work for yourself for no great environmental impact.
Possible benefit tho’ – Guests might prefer to cross their legs rather than sit over a box that contains the excrement of several people over a week. That way you don’t get other people’s “poo air” in your house.
redforkhippie said
StewartP, your arguments would be valid if we were talking about vermicomposting or some other low-temperature method. But they do not apply to thermophilic composting, which is what we are talking about here. A properly functioning thermophilic composting system will reach — and easily sustain — temperatures well above the 140 degrees necessary to destroy human pathogens. We are talking about a simple biological system that requires less (and infinitely less expensive) maintenance than a traditional septic system, yet destroys potentially hazardous bacteria faster and more cleanly — with no harmful byproducts, no waste of water, and no potential for huge, stinky, nasty system failures — while creating a safe, useful end product that’s good for the environment.
Before you criticize a proven sanitation method that has been extensively researched and tested by biologists in several countries, I would strongly encourage you to do your homework and learn how the process works, because the perception you have voiced bears absolutely no resemblance to reality.
As for the risk of offending guests’ delicate sensibilities: There are many aspects of my increasingly eco-friendly lifestyle that some people find distasteful, from the beehive in the garden to the flock of chickens in the backyard. I generally advise such individuals to take care, lest the door hit them in the backside on their way out.
StewartP said
I do apologise.
I didn’t see “thermophilic composting” in the post, just a picture of a wooden box and “compost toilet”.
Sorry for any offence.
redforkhippie said
‘Sallright. Yours was a pretty common response to the idea of humanure composting. It’s just frustrating to see how quickly perception overrides biology when people are confronted with this issue.
Generally speaking, household composting systems fall into two categories: vermiculture or thermophilic. There are a few alternate methods out there, but they are not widely used or, IMHO, terribly practical.
The box you see in the picture shows the cabinet housing the receptacle at the collection point, which is one component of a larger system. This receptacle is emptied regularly (usually once or twice a week, depending on the number of people in the home) into a larger, outdoor bin or pile, where its contents are layered with straw or dry leaves to provide both aeration and the correct carbon-to-nitrogen ratio to ensure rapid thermophilic composting. Safety concerns may lead some proponents of this method to take periodic temperature measurements using a special thermometer designed for this purpose, but I think the good old-fashioned pitchfork method (stick a pitchfork into the middle of the pile and look for steam) is just as effective.
Done correctly, the system requires virtually no maintenance beyond emptying the receptacle and hosing it out as needed — which takes about as long as cleaning a conventional toilet. While some guests may find it a bit odd at first, most will find it amusing or a bit eccentric at worst, and some will even be impressed once they understand the science behind it.
As to an earlier statement you made: I don’t know the laws in France, but in some parts of the U.S., dishwater is considered blackwater (presumably due to the higher concentrations of organic matter from food waste) and must be processed as such, but laundry, shower, and bathroom sink drains can be run into a graywater tank for use on the garden. I could envision a system involving a composting toilet, a kitchen sink draining to the existing septic system to keep the authorities happy, and the remainder of the drains being diverted to a graywater tank for use in the garden. Judicious use of dishpans could ensure that the water from the kitchen sink finds its way to the compost bin rather than the septic system, thus guaranteeing that the system is never overwhelmed with liquids.
Alex Crowe said
Compost, definitely. But I don’t think Ian is your only problem.
We’re in the middle of Planning Hell down in the Dordogne, trying to establish a luxury yurt camp with compost toilets, solar showers and all that. The authorities (DDE) are finding the toilet idea very challenging.
We’re to come up with a case study in France for the Clivus Multrum toilet we want to install – and back it up with all the detail. In French. It’s a great loo – doesn’t smell, chamber doesn’t need emptying for 30 years and the run-off is safer than a swimming pool. Fosse Septiques seem very fallible, with some massive number either not working properly or failing completely.
Keep up the good work.
Scarlet said
Alex,
Welcome!
I won’t be asking anyone for permission! I believe that the only way forward is for individuals like myself to do first and ask later when it comes to alternative systems such as compost loos or grey-water treatment.
I can see that for you the situation is a little more complicated. I would advise you to get in contact with an Association called EAU VIVANTE (if you haven’t already). They work all over the country to promote these types of alternatives: consultancy, designs, workshops, courses, etc, etc, and I believe they also help people who are having to put together case-studies like yours and have even gone along to the meetings with the DDE and SPANC to offer their expert advice (although you might not realise any of this from their website!)
Eau Vivante
Cassany
47130 PORT-SAINTE-MARIE
Tél : 05 53 95 44 56
http://www.eauvivante.net/
Good luck!
Alex Crowe said
Thanks very much for that. Will get in touch with them almost immediately.
mandarine said
Definitely composting for me. I am going to make at least one before this summer. I’ll be posting the blueprints on my blog. I’ll keep you posted.
Rebecca (living sustainably in rural Ireland) said
I’m writing a post about this very subject at the moment as we are considering a compost loo too. Well not considering, we are going to do it, just researching it a bit more. Sick of prodding poo down a septic tank that can’t ever seep and percolate its contents as the water table is higher than ground level, and an uphill pipe doesn’t help matters either. Our previous house was like that too. We are opting for a treebog toilet outside for spring/summer times when we are working and playing outdoors all the time anyway, and a compost loo in the bathroom.
I’ve used 2 types. A commercial one that looks like a traditional toilet on approach, has fans to prevent odour travelling up into the room and the poo composts in sections before it needs removal so its already sweet and ready for the fruit trees when removed. It cost over E1000
The other cost about E15 in timber, a homemade toilet. It was really lovely. Shovel of sawdust after you ‘go’. No smell only that of natural pine and it was high summer.
In my post I have interviewed both these compost toilet owners and cover issues such as peoples preconceptions when they visit and their views after their first use. When I say I’m writing it, I am Irish, so it could be a few weeks before it sees the light of day! ie its Irish time
Val Grainger said
You have been tagged by Val from the Woolly shepherds diary! (www.smallholdinginsomerset.blogspot.com) You have to provide 5 facts about yourself then tag 5 other sites who will all provide a link back to the person who tagged them!!!
So 5 facts….
1. I love beer….especially Pelforth Brune!
2. I am very untidy!
3. I drive a bright yellow car
4. I make my own bread
5. I also save small children from tooth decay by stealing sweets
I love your site by the way!!! Got the link from permaculture in Brittany!
jr iannacone said
i solved my septic back up problems by installing a wishing well over the the down baffel to the tank. i brought up a 3 in. pipe with a cap and when the kids plug it with toilet paper and other items. i run a wood pole down and it cleers it up, no more digging, except when have the tank cleaned. i also run the washing machine out to a dry well,3 feet by ten feet.
April said
I recently read The Humanure Handbook and when we build our tiny house (in a few weeks) we’re going to have a sawdust toilet—so glad to find other people out there who don’t think this is a crazy idea!